M. Brush: "Market Gamblers, Step Away From the Button&q
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R. Martins Escreveu:Aqui já não percebo o que é que duas páginas de apontamentos têm a ver com subidas e descidas…
Na página da esquerda tomo nota de todos os trades que fiz (os bons e as asneiras), assim como regras a seguir no futuro.
Na página da direita tomo nota de comportamento do mercado (eurusd,usdjpy,eurjpy,usdchf, patterns, economic data,
options, order flows, stop-loss/options-barrier hunting/defending, etc, etc...) desde as 0600 da manha até às 1600.
Hoje por exemplo, fiz trades muito similares aos feitos em certos dias de 2005. São os apontamentos que me levaram
a reconhecer padrões de comportamento do mercado e a melhorar os pontos/timings de entrada/saida dos trades.
- Mensagens: 84
- Registado: 31/1/2006 14:02
nikopol Escreveu:Keep records: "The single, absolutely most important thing a person can do to stop self-destructive behavior is to keep good records," says Elder. Record why you entered a trade and why you exited. Then look for patterns behind the successes and failures over time so you can learn from them. "Show me a trader with good records, and I will show you a good trader," says Elder.
Bem, posso confirmar que isto pelo menos funciona.
As minhas melhores ferramentas são uma esferográfica Bic e uma bloco de apontamentos A6 de papel reciclável.
E claro: todos os dias duas páginas de apontamentos...
«As minhas melhores ferramentas são uma esferográfica Bic e uma bloco de apontamentos A6 de papel reciclável.»
Acredito sim Senhor…
«E claro: todos os dias duas páginas de apontamentos... »
Aqui já não percebo o que é que duas páginas de apontamentos têm a ver com subidas e descidas…
R.Martins
Quem não conhece o «CALDEIRÃO» não conhece este mundo
- Mensagens: 1611
- Registado: 5/11/2002 9:23
Keep records: "The single, absolutely most important thing a person can do to stop self-destructive behavior is to keep good records," says Elder. Record why you entered a trade and why you exited. Then look for patterns behind the successes and failures over time so you can learn from them. "Show me a trader with good records, and I will show you a good trader," says Elder.
Bem, posso confirmar que isto pelo menos funciona.
As minhas melhores ferramentas são uma esferográfica Bic e uma bloco de apontamentos A6 de papel reciclável.
E claro: todos os dias duas páginas de apontamentos...
- Mensagens: 84
- Registado: 31/1/2006 14:02
M. Brush: "Market Gamblers, Step Away From the Button&q
Deixo aqui um artigo com várias citações de Alexander Elder, uma das referências e amigo do Cem 
Um abraço,
Ulisses
"Market Gamblers, Step Away From the Button"
By Michael Brush
RealMoney.com Contributor
6/21/2006 4:23 PM EDT
Do not let investing become like gambling.
If you've lost control of your trading approach, take steps to regain your grip.
Two psychologists offer insight on managing your
A trader we'll call Bob wrote to say he had taken a large position in Yamana Gold (AUY:NYSE - commentary - research - Cramer's Take) after I posted that the stock's weakness on news of a secondary was probably temporary.
On the basis of this comment in Columnist Conversation, Bob plunked down $100,000 to buy 10,000 shares of Yamana Gold for around $10. The stock bumped back up to $11 in a few days. Bob sold for a quick $10,000 profit and wrote to say: "Thanks for the trade!"
Thanks for the trade?
I'm happy he made money. But he should have said thanks for the fix.
That wasn't a trade at all. At that position size, it was more like a high-risk gamble put on by a thrill-seeker. And that's what I found disturbing. I also didn't like the part about potentially being part of someone else's financial train wreck. After all, thrill-seekers eventually crack up in the market.
I'm assuming, of course, that Bob doesn't have a $5 million trading account. That's the only kind of wealth that could justify a $100,000 trading position, because it would then be an acceptable 2% of his overall account.
Bob did OK with his trade. But now that many of the hotter-momentum names in sectors like commodities and energy have tanked a good 25% or more -- including Yamana Gold -- I'm guessing there are a lot of traders who are smarting because their huge positions have been shredded in the market's turmoil since early May.
So it seemed like a good time to check in with two market psychologists to ask: Why do people take on excessive risk in the form of large trading positions? And if someone has this problem, what can they do to fix it? Can it ever be fixed?
Why They Do It
For Brett Steenbarger, a Chicago-based psychologist who works regularly with traders to help them improve their game, it all comes down to personality type. Certain kinds of people are simply drawn to the thrill of risk. "This is a way for them to be stimulated and get some excitement. They are not really making the trade for the economic value. They are doing it for the stimulus," says Steenbarger.
He says excessive risk-taking in trading typically goes along with other kinds of risky behavior like gambling, driving too fast, or using illegal drugs. There is an overlap with addictive tendencies and attention deficit disorder.
"I think it's common. I work with proprietary trading firms, and I see it all the time," says Steenbarger, who writes about market psychology at his Web site.
Alexander Elder, a psychiatrist and author of one of the classic books on trader psychology called Trading for a Living, links excessive market-risk-taking to midlife crisis.
"The average trader is a 50-year-old, college educated, married male," says Elder. "This guy wakes up in the morning every day to the wife and kids, the same old, same old. Career-wise, he is not where he wanted to be in life when he was in college."
Some men react to this ennui by leaving their wives for younger women. Some let their gray hair grow into a pony tail and buy a motorcycle. "Other guys go into trading. It takes them out of the misery of their everyday life. It gives them a jolt of adrenaline," says Elder. "If they make money, that is great. But even if they lose money, it is still better than the daily boredom in which they live."
When you trade for the sheer excitement, however, you will inevitably put on trades with bad odds and unnecessary risks. Eventually, this kind of trader loses it all in pursuit of the high that came from winning. "Emotional trading always results in losses because the market is unforgiving," says Elder. Instead, trading should always be "a little boring," he says.
Other traders simply go bust because of an unconscious wish to fail, while some blow up their accounts because they get disorientated by the total freedom they find in the markets. "In other areas of life -- at work, at home -- you have a safety net," says Elder. "There is a collection of people around you who tell you when you are getting out of line. When it is just you against the markets, there is no check like this."
How do you know if you have a trading addiction? You'll know when your trading interferes with personal relationships, or when you find yourself looking back in remorse and realizing you broke the basic trading rules and lost money as a consequence.
How to Break the Habit
Elder finds a striking similarity between market thrill-seekers and people with a drinking problem. The "high" that people seek through trading is similar to the fix alcoholics find in a drink. And like alcoholics, thrill-seeking traders may stay in denial until they hit "rock bottom" and get wiped out financially, which snaps them out of their denial.
If that's you, or if you are fortunate enough to realize you have a problem without hitting rock bottom, here's what you should do.
Practice safe money management: "If you are a frequent trader, you are going to have periods where you have several consecutive losers. And if you are placing big trades, those periods will draw down your account considerably," says Steenbarger.
A basic rule for avoiding this is never risk more than 2% of an account on any trade. Another way to look at it: Your positions should be so small that they don't affect you emotionally. Steenbarger caps his own trading account so that even if he lost every penny, it wouldn't affect his lifestyle.
Keep records: "The single, absolutely most important thing a person can do to stop self-destructive behavior is to keep good records," says Elder. Record why you entered a trade and why you exited. Then look for patterns behind the successes and failures over time so you can learn from them. "Show me a trader with good records, and I will show you a good trader," says Elder.
Take a break: Thrill-seekers get high from trading, but "nobody can get high and make money at the same time," says Elder. Try to control your emotions. In reality, if you are a market addict, that's going to be tough. Instead, try to stop trading for a month. If the urge to trade is so strong that you can't resist, you probably have a gambling problem. If so, close all your accounts and seek professional help, says Steenbarger.
Join Alcoholics Anonymous: At meetings, substitute the word "loss" each time someone mentions alcohol, suggests Elder. Then learn the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous to develop a safety net that keeps you out of trouble and away from the markets. You could also go to a chapter of Gamblers Anonymous.
Despite having several tips at the ready for dealing with a trading addiction, both psychologists question whether many addicts can ever really be cured and learn to trade more responsibly.
"I don't think there is anything people can do to overhaul their personality traits," says Steenbarger. "Many of the successful programs for alcoholics and gamblers have them abstain altogether."
Elder agrees that if your thrill-seeking constantly leads to market losses, you may simply have to quit. "Many people go through life and make the same mistakes at 60 as they did at 20. Very few people grow out of their problems," he says. "
(in www.realmoney.com)
Um abraço,
Ulisses
"Market Gamblers, Step Away From the Button"
By Michael Brush
RealMoney.com Contributor
6/21/2006 4:23 PM EDT
Do not let investing become like gambling.
If you've lost control of your trading approach, take steps to regain your grip.
Two psychologists offer insight on managing your
A trader we'll call Bob wrote to say he had taken a large position in Yamana Gold (AUY:NYSE - commentary - research - Cramer's Take) after I posted that the stock's weakness on news of a secondary was probably temporary.
On the basis of this comment in Columnist Conversation, Bob plunked down $100,000 to buy 10,000 shares of Yamana Gold for around $10. The stock bumped back up to $11 in a few days. Bob sold for a quick $10,000 profit and wrote to say: "Thanks for the trade!"
Thanks for the trade?
I'm happy he made money. But he should have said thanks for the fix.
That wasn't a trade at all. At that position size, it was more like a high-risk gamble put on by a thrill-seeker. And that's what I found disturbing. I also didn't like the part about potentially being part of someone else's financial train wreck. After all, thrill-seekers eventually crack up in the market.
I'm assuming, of course, that Bob doesn't have a $5 million trading account. That's the only kind of wealth that could justify a $100,000 trading position, because it would then be an acceptable 2% of his overall account.
Bob did OK with his trade. But now that many of the hotter-momentum names in sectors like commodities and energy have tanked a good 25% or more -- including Yamana Gold -- I'm guessing there are a lot of traders who are smarting because their huge positions have been shredded in the market's turmoil since early May.
So it seemed like a good time to check in with two market psychologists to ask: Why do people take on excessive risk in the form of large trading positions? And if someone has this problem, what can they do to fix it? Can it ever be fixed?
Why They Do It
For Brett Steenbarger, a Chicago-based psychologist who works regularly with traders to help them improve their game, it all comes down to personality type. Certain kinds of people are simply drawn to the thrill of risk. "This is a way for them to be stimulated and get some excitement. They are not really making the trade for the economic value. They are doing it for the stimulus," says Steenbarger.
He says excessive risk-taking in trading typically goes along with other kinds of risky behavior like gambling, driving too fast, or using illegal drugs. There is an overlap with addictive tendencies and attention deficit disorder.
"I think it's common. I work with proprietary trading firms, and I see it all the time," says Steenbarger, who writes about market psychology at his Web site.
Alexander Elder, a psychiatrist and author of one of the classic books on trader psychology called Trading for a Living, links excessive market-risk-taking to midlife crisis.
"The average trader is a 50-year-old, college educated, married male," says Elder. "This guy wakes up in the morning every day to the wife and kids, the same old, same old. Career-wise, he is not where he wanted to be in life when he was in college."
Some men react to this ennui by leaving their wives for younger women. Some let their gray hair grow into a pony tail and buy a motorcycle. "Other guys go into trading. It takes them out of the misery of their everyday life. It gives them a jolt of adrenaline," says Elder. "If they make money, that is great. But even if they lose money, it is still better than the daily boredom in which they live."
When you trade for the sheer excitement, however, you will inevitably put on trades with bad odds and unnecessary risks. Eventually, this kind of trader loses it all in pursuit of the high that came from winning. "Emotional trading always results in losses because the market is unforgiving," says Elder. Instead, trading should always be "a little boring," he says.
Other traders simply go bust because of an unconscious wish to fail, while some blow up their accounts because they get disorientated by the total freedom they find in the markets. "In other areas of life -- at work, at home -- you have a safety net," says Elder. "There is a collection of people around you who tell you when you are getting out of line. When it is just you against the markets, there is no check like this."
How do you know if you have a trading addiction? You'll know when your trading interferes with personal relationships, or when you find yourself looking back in remorse and realizing you broke the basic trading rules and lost money as a consequence.
How to Break the Habit
Elder finds a striking similarity between market thrill-seekers and people with a drinking problem. The "high" that people seek through trading is similar to the fix alcoholics find in a drink. And like alcoholics, thrill-seeking traders may stay in denial until they hit "rock bottom" and get wiped out financially, which snaps them out of their denial.
If that's you, or if you are fortunate enough to realize you have a problem without hitting rock bottom, here's what you should do.
Practice safe money management: "If you are a frequent trader, you are going to have periods where you have several consecutive losers. And if you are placing big trades, those periods will draw down your account considerably," says Steenbarger.
A basic rule for avoiding this is never risk more than 2% of an account on any trade. Another way to look at it: Your positions should be so small that they don't affect you emotionally. Steenbarger caps his own trading account so that even if he lost every penny, it wouldn't affect his lifestyle.
Keep records: "The single, absolutely most important thing a person can do to stop self-destructive behavior is to keep good records," says Elder. Record why you entered a trade and why you exited. Then look for patterns behind the successes and failures over time so you can learn from them. "Show me a trader with good records, and I will show you a good trader," says Elder.
Take a break: Thrill-seekers get high from trading, but "nobody can get high and make money at the same time," says Elder. Try to control your emotions. In reality, if you are a market addict, that's going to be tough. Instead, try to stop trading for a month. If the urge to trade is so strong that you can't resist, you probably have a gambling problem. If so, close all your accounts and seek professional help, says Steenbarger.
Join Alcoholics Anonymous: At meetings, substitute the word "loss" each time someone mentions alcohol, suggests Elder. Then learn the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous to develop a safety net that keeps you out of trouble and away from the markets. You could also go to a chapter of Gamblers Anonymous.
Despite having several tips at the ready for dealing with a trading addiction, both psychologists question whether many addicts can ever really be cured and learn to trade more responsibly.
"I don't think there is anything people can do to overhaul their personality traits," says Steenbarger. "Many of the successful programs for alcoholics and gamblers have them abstain altogether."
Elder agrees that if your thrill-seeking constantly leads to market losses, you may simply have to quit. "Many people go through life and make the same mistakes at 60 as they did at 20. Very few people grow out of their problems," he says. "
(in www.realmoney.com)
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