O discurso de POWELL...
E já agoram vejam isto.....
As voltas que a vida dá.....
777
777
- Anexos
-
- Current US Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in the mid-80s. Donald Rumsfeld, then president of a major Pharmaceutical company (did anyone say chemicals?), was sent as a special envoy by then President Reagan, to improv
- rumsfeld80s.jpg (10.96 KiB) Visualizado 856 vezes
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Incognitus....
disse:
De residual é que nada tem. Passo a explicar:
1) Os aviões Mirage, os tanques russos e as AK47 não são armas de destruição maciça. É armamento convencional que todos os exércitos do mundo possuem.
2) É exactamente no "residual", que refere, que se encontram os componentes necessários à construção e desenvolvimento de armas de destruição em massa.
3) E como se pode ver pela lista de fornecedores bem como pelas declarações dos membros do Congresso dos USA o fornecimento destes componentes foi fornecidos por empresas norte-americanas ou subsdiárias destas instaladas noutros países.
4) A propósito, já com a operação "Tempestade no Deserto" em marcha os ingleses entretinham-se a vender peças para o chamado super-canhão do Sadam. Lembra-se dos tubos em alúminio que foram interceptados?
777
Como se pode ver nos artigos, quase material nenhum é americano. O que é americano é residual.
De residual é que nada tem. Passo a explicar:
1) Os aviões Mirage, os tanques russos e as AK47 não são armas de destruição maciça. É armamento convencional que todos os exércitos do mundo possuem.
2) É exactamente no "residual", que refere, que se encontram os componentes necessários à construção e desenvolvimento de armas de destruição em massa.
3) E como se pode ver pela lista de fornecedores bem como pelas declarações dos membros do Congresso dos USA o fornecimento destes componentes foi fornecidos por empresas norte-americanas ou subsdiárias destas instaladas noutros países.
4) A propósito, já com a operação "Tempestade no Deserto" em marcha os ingleses entretinham-se a vender peças para o chamado super-canhão do Sadam. Lembra-se dos tubos em alúminio que foram interceptados?
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Provas irrefutáveis contra o Iraque
Provas irrefutáveis contra o Iraque
P: Presidente Bush, como podem os Estados Unidos ter tanta certeza de
que o Iraque tem armas de destruição massiça?
R: Bem, nós guardámos os recibos...
Bom fim de semana a todos.
JAS
P: Presidente Bush, como podem os Estados Unidos ter tanta certeza de
que o Iraque tem armas de destruição massiça?
R: Bem, nós guardámos os recibos...
Bom fim de semana a todos.
JAS
-
- Mensagens: 6499
- Registado: 5/11/2002 0:05
- Localização: Lisboa
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Incognitus, e tal como prometido....
aqui vai a lista de empresas americanas que venderam armas ao Iraque....
List of US businesses that sold weapons to Saddam Hussein.
When the massive pile of documents from Iraq appeared the U.S. immediately pulled out all stops to get first access, to shut down wide dissemination. The smart money said there would be evidence of U.S. culpability in aiding the Iraqi weapons programs. To be reported in tomorow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin daily), here is a list of US and Eurpean corporations that supplied Iraq with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to 1991. The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the Security Council."
U.S. corporations involved:
A - nuclear K - chemical B - biological R - rockets
(missiles)
1) Honeywell (R,K)
2) Spektra Physics (K)
3) Semetex (R)
4) TI Coating (A,K)
5) UNISYS (A,K)
6) Sperry Corp. (R,K)
7) Tektronix (R,A)
8) Rockwell )(K)
9) Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)
10) Finnigan-MAT-US (A)
11) Hewlett Packard (A.R,K)
12) Dupont (A)
13) Eastman Kodak (R)
14) American Type Culture Collection (B)
15) Alcolac International (C)
16) Consarc (A)
17) Carl Zeis -U.Ss (K)
18) Cerberus (LTD) (A)
19) Electronic Assiciates (R)
20) International Computer Systems
21) Bechtel (K)
22) EZ Logic Data Systems,Inc. (R)
23) Canberra Industries Inc. (A)
24) Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Additionally to these 24 companies based in the US, are nearly 50
subsidiaries of foreign enterprises whose arms co-operation with Iraq
seems to have been operated from the US. In addition, Ministries for
defense, energy, trade, and agriculture, as well as the foremost U.S.
nuclear weapons laboratories at Lawrence Livermore. Los Alamos, and
Sandia, are designated as suppliers for the Iraqi arms programs for A,
B, and C-weapons as well as for rockets.
Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council lists 150 foreign companies, including some from America, Britain, Germany and France, that supported Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programme, a German newspaper said yesterday.
Berlin's left-wing Die Tageszeitung newspaper said it had seen a copy of the original Iraqi dossier which was vetted for sensitive information by US officials before being handed to the five permanent Security Council members two weeks ago. An edited version was passed to the remaining 10 members of the Security Council last night.
It is not known who leaked the report, but it could have come from Iraq.
Sempre ao dispôr
777
List of US businesses that sold weapons to Saddam Hussein.
When the massive pile of documents from Iraq appeared the U.S. immediately pulled out all stops to get first access, to shut down wide dissemination. The smart money said there would be evidence of U.S. culpability in aiding the Iraqi weapons programs. To be reported in tomorow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin daily), here is a list of US and Eurpean corporations that supplied Iraq with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to 1991. The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the Security Council."
U.S. corporations involved:
A - nuclear K - chemical B - biological R - rockets
(missiles)
1) Honeywell (R,K)
2) Spektra Physics (K)
3) Semetex (R)
4) TI Coating (A,K)
5) UNISYS (A,K)
6) Sperry Corp. (R,K)
7) Tektronix (R,A)
8) Rockwell )(K)
9) Leybold Vacuum Systems (A)
10) Finnigan-MAT-US (A)
11) Hewlett Packard (A.R,K)
12) Dupont (A)
13) Eastman Kodak (R)
14) American Type Culture Collection (B)
15) Alcolac International (C)
16) Consarc (A)
17) Carl Zeis -U.Ss (K)
18) Cerberus (LTD) (A)
19) Electronic Assiciates (R)
20) International Computer Systems
21) Bechtel (K)
22) EZ Logic Data Systems,Inc. (R)
23) Canberra Industries Inc. (A)
24) Axel Electronics Inc. (A)
Additionally to these 24 companies based in the US, are nearly 50
subsidiaries of foreign enterprises whose arms co-operation with Iraq
seems to have been operated from the US. In addition, Ministries for
defense, energy, trade, and agriculture, as well as the foremost U.S.
nuclear weapons laboratories at Lawrence Livermore. Los Alamos, and
Sandia, are designated as suppliers for the Iraqi arms programs for A,
B, and C-weapons as well as for rockets.
Iraq's 11,000-page report to the UN Security Council lists 150 foreign companies, including some from America, Britain, Germany and France, that supported Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction programme, a German newspaper said yesterday.
Berlin's left-wing Die Tageszeitung newspaper said it had seen a copy of the original Iraqi dossier which was vetted for sensitive information by US officials before being handed to the five permanent Security Council members two weeks ago. An edited version was passed to the remaining 10 members of the Security Council last night.
It is not known who leaked the report, but it could have come from Iraq.
Sempre ao dispôr
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Incognitus, ora aqui vai uma amostra....
sobre a venda de armas americanas ao Iraque. Outras se seguirão....
UNITED STATES ARMS SALES TO IRAQ: EXCERPTS OF RECENT CBS `60 MINUTES' BROADCAST (House of Representatives - January 31, 1991)
[Page: H836]
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Owens of Utah). Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Moody] is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. MOODY. Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, January 20, the CBS television network program `60 Minutes' broadcast an extraordinary interview with an international arms dealer, Sarkis Soghanalian, who lives in Miami. I am placing in the Record a transcript of key excerpts from that interview.
The revelations and allegations made by Mr. Soghanalian are, and must be, extremely disturbing to every American. They are disturbing to Mr. Soghanalian. He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region.
I congratulate the staff of `60 Minutes' for bringing this explosive matter to the attention of the American public. Executive producer Don Hewitt, producer Lowell Bergman, and on-air reporter Steve Kroft have raised profound questions in this piece that demand further investigation.
Mr. Speaker, last week, after his interview on `60 Minutes' I traveled to Miami to spend a day with Mr. Soghanalian exploring in greater detail many of the issues he touched on in the TV broadcast. At a later time I will share some of these items with the Congress. At this time, I can only say to my colleagues that the outline contained in the following excerpts from the `60 Minutes' broadcast only scratches the surface of where and how the dictator Saddam Hussein acquired the deadly weapons he is now using against American and allied soldiers in the gulf war.
If our fears of a protracted ground war in Iraq are borne out--and I hope they won't be--hundreds and perhaps thousands of American soldiers will be wounded or killed by weapons our own Government helped Saddam Hussein acquire. Toward the end of this excerpted interview Mr. Soghanalian discusses the weaponry he has sold Iraq with the direct involvement and cooperation of various U.S. Government agencies.
Mr. Speaker, this matter calls out for further investigation.
Mr. Soghanalian is to be commended for his openness and his willingness to bring out into the open this most disturbing issue of the U.S. Government's role in arming Saddam Hussein.
Mr. Speaker, I include for the Record the transcript of the `60 Minutes' interview.
[Page: H837]
The Man Who Armed Iraq
Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian is the arms dealer who armed Iraq. During the war between Iraq and Iran, despite a worldwide embargo, Sarkis sold billions in arms to Saddam Hussein.
This Lebanese Armenian has made a career out of breaking international embargoes--supplying arms to countries and groups with whom the United States in particular--did not want to be seen with in public.
Filling that niche made him rich. And supplying Iraq made him during the 1980s the largest private arms dealer in the world.
As you would imagine, Sarkis's intimate relationship with Iraq's military gives him unique insight into their strategy. For a couple of days earlier this week, he talked with us about the arms he sold to Saddam Hussein and gave us what his assessment of what might be in store for our own troops.
Sarkis. Iraqi troops will never surrender to foreign troops. If they use Egyptians on a front line, you know, for psychological reason, maybe Iraqi soldier will say, I am surrendering to another brother, but to surrender to a foreign troop like Germans or French or American, they don't . . . they will fight to their last bullet.
Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian not only provided weapons to Iraq, he inspected the front lines regularly during the war with Iran, checked out captured equipment, even helped develop Iraq's military strategy. The day before the war began, Sarkis told us in his Miami office that Iraq would, in fact, put up little or no resistance to U.S. air power. But his predictions about a ground war that is almost sure to follow are not so rosy.
Sarkis. The United States is facing hard core, tough battlefield trained ground forces.
Kroft. It's not going to be like Grenada?
Sarkis. No. Grenada was a vacation. Panama was the same way. This is not Panama, this is not Grenada. And you're fighting a different kind of people.
Kroft. What do you mean . . . ?
Sarkis. Well, Iraqi soldiers can go into the desert, into sand, and sit for two, three days. They don't need no heavy arms. They don't need no distilled water, no bottled water, you know. They can get milk out of a camel and survive, but they will dig in and wait for us to come in.
Kroft. Sarkis thinks the real battle will come when allied troops try to push the Iraqis out of populated areas like Kuwait City.
Sarkis. How we gonna kick those guys out of the houses? It's
gonna be like Berlin, wall to wall, and room to room . . . they will try to cause as much personal casualties as they can in order to embarrass our leaders here. That's their tactic. This is what's gonna be concentrated on. And Air Force superiority electronics-wise, maybe they jam all their equipment, that's . . . they don't care about that. But the major aim is how much casualty they can cause. . . . The [American] equipment is advanced equipment, but it is not for this war. You are not fighting in a climate like European climate, your fighting heat, rain, dust. It won't work.
Kroft. Sarkis says the equipment he sold to Iraq has been customized to withstand the heat and sand and dust of the Middle East. He says Iraq's military hardware may be more reliable.
Sarkis. Because it's not electronic . . . it's conventional weapons. Just like their tanks. They don't have air conditioning, no stabilizer, no nothing. They just, you know, the old-fashioned conventional thing. They dig a hole, they circle a couple of times, they make a hole. They sit there like a sniper and wait for the enemy to come in. And they have artillery superiority.
Kroft. You sold the Iraqis quite a bit of artillery, French artillery . . . the 155 Howitzer . . self propelled?
Sarkis. Yes.
Kroft. Why is it superior to anything the United States has?
Sarkis. We do not have the same range as this vehicle . . . this gun has. It's modified to 42 kilometers [25 miles]. What do we have in the field to match this gun?
Kroft. The Iraqis have a 20 kilometer [12 mile] advantage in terms of artillery range.
Sarkis. Yeah. They can fight from a distance.
Kroft. And Sarkis says that the French artillery pieces he sold to Iraq, over one hundred of them, are backed by thousands of specially modified Soviet long-range cannons, as well as advanced artillery purchased from South Africa by way of Austria. Sarkis used Austria as a middle man to get around U.N. sanctions against South Africa. A lot of different people had their hands in this, one way or another.
Sarkis. Oh, yeah the . . . the . . . war game.
Kroft. What do you mean the war game?
Sarkis. Well, some people lose blood, some people make money. That's why I don't want to get involved in this war. I don't want to make money on . . .
Kroft. You're already involved in this war, aren't you?
Sarkis. Well, I don't look at it that way.
Kroft. A lot of that equipment that's facing the United States right now was sold to the Iraqis by you, Sarkis.
Sarkis. Yeah, but I didn't sell it eight years ago to fight ourselves today. That was sold to fight Khomeini. And we were against Khomeini. U.S. had hostages there, and I said, I'll go ahead and take my share in it.
Kroft. So you sold the weapons to the Iraqis to fight the. . .
Sarkis. Khomeinis . . . not to fight the, you know, Americans.
Kroft. Right. Because that would be best for America . . . and best maybe for Sarkis.
Sarkis. Well, you get compensated sometimes. There's nothing wrong with that. And if Sarkis wouldn't do it, somebody else would do it.
Kroft. And other arms dealers and countries did. Brazil provided thousands of armored vehicles. China and the Soviet Union sent tanks, missiles and munitions. German companies sold Saddam poison gas technology, and France, not only approved the sale of artillery to Iraq, but [also sold] armed helicopters and antiaircraft missile systems.
This Chilean arms manufacturer [shown on screen] sold Saddam deadly cluster bombs--reportedly with technical assistance from U.S. companies, and the United States allowed American computer technology to go to Iraq as well. It allowed Sarkis to sell Hughes and Bell helicopters. The U.S. government approved the sale after Iraq promised that they would only be used for civilian purposes. Sarkis told us that the helicopters were used as transportation during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
Sarkis. I did it with the knowledge of U.S. authorities, policy makers--and also they have delivered weapons that are equally weapons as I did. I do not have anything on my conscience. I did not sell the weapons to kill the American boys.
Kroft. Which agencies of the U.S. government knew about Sarkis and his deals with Iraq? Well, according to Sarkis, almost all of them. And federal court documents show that Sarkis Soghanalian had a relationship with U.S. intelligence agencies for decades, and has performed work on their behalf.
Not all of Sarkis's deals with Iraq involve weapons. He arranged the sale of $280 million in uniforms to the Iraqi army. And Sarkis's partners in the deal included former Vice President Spiro Agnew, a former Attorney General, Colonel Jack Brennan.
The partners used their influence to get ex-President Nixon to provide them with these letters of introduction [shown on screen] to heads of state around the world.
[To Sarkis] Do you think there was anything unusual about a former Vice President and a former Attorney General and a former Chief of Staff for the President of the United Stateas to want to be selling military uniforms to the Iraqis?
Sarkis. They were not only in the uniform business. They would sell their mothers if they could, just to make the money.
Kroft. Some of his partners in that deal aren't talking to him
at all today. They're in court suing Sarkis over the multimillion dollar commissions they say he hasn't paid them
... [To Sarkis] Are you a Merchant of Death? You are an arms salesman.
Sarkis. No. I am a coordinator of industries that produce arms. But I am not a salesman. I don't carry no bag. I don't carry no catalogue in my pocket to sell arms to anybody.
Kroft. Why did this international arms dealer [Sarkis]--who is currently under federal indictment in Miami--decide to talk with us? Well, Sarkis says this is one war he doesn't want any part of.
Sarkis. No, this war stinks. It's not to anybody's advantage. I don't know who's advising who. This is a dirty war for us. What are we gonna do with Kuwait? We lose so many men, and next spring the Emir of Kuwait is sitting in Monaco, in Monte Carlo, happy with European girls. I'd fight for anybody that I have faith in. ... The man has 80 wives. Which one can he love, you know, if he's raising a family or a country? What do you owe the Emir of Kuwait? Why? For all this much sacrifice, or for prestige?
Kroft. Which do you think?
Sarkis. I think it's for ego, somebody's ego. ...
Kroft. You don't think it's worth committing a half a million American troops to ...
Sarkis. Hell no. ... go to die for this garbage war, no way, not me. I obey my country. I obey my President. He's a lovely man. He's a good man. He's, ah, intelligent person, but how he's making this decision, I don't know.
Kroft. And Sarkis Soghanalian made a decision too. He says Iraq has approached him about breaking the current embargo and selling them more arms. He says he's not running their phone calls.
Sarkis. It against my principle ... to go against U.S. policy. I'm staying away 100 percent now because I don't want to supply them with nothing. No spare parts or nothing. No vehicles, no shoes, no clothes, no nothing because they will support the enemy of today. A friend of yesterday is an enemy of today.
[Page: H838]
... Kroft. And tomorrow?
Sarkis. Who knows? Maybe a friend again.
Kroft [closing]. For the last three years Sarkis Soghanalian has been under a federal indictment for--among other things--conspiring to sell 300 American-built Hughes combat helicopters to Iraq.
The case has been stalled largely because U.S. intelligence agencies have been reluctant to turn over classified files that Sarkis says he needs to conduct his defense.
END
UNITED STATES ARMS SALES TO IRAQ: EXCERPTS OF RECENT CBS `60 MINUTES' BROADCAST (House of Representatives - January 31, 1991)
[Page: H836]
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Owens of Utah). Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. Moody] is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. MOODY. Mr. Speaker, on Sunday, January 20, the CBS television network program `60 Minutes' broadcast an extraordinary interview with an international arms dealer, Sarkis Soghanalian, who lives in Miami. I am placing in the Record a transcript of key excerpts from that interview.
The revelations and allegations made by Mr. Soghanalian are, and must be, extremely disturbing to every American. They are disturbing to Mr. Soghanalian. He gives a first-hand description of official and unofficial American involvement in the enormous buildup of arms to Saddam Hussein. Much of this buildup occurred after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. He gives chilling accounts of the cozy relationship among high past and present U.S. Government officials who permitted, and in some cases, actually assisted his sales of many of the lethal weapons Saddam Hussein is now using to bring death to American military personnel and civilians throughout the Middle East region.
I congratulate the staff of `60 Minutes' for bringing this explosive matter to the attention of the American public. Executive producer Don Hewitt, producer Lowell Bergman, and on-air reporter Steve Kroft have raised profound questions in this piece that demand further investigation.
Mr. Speaker, last week, after his interview on `60 Minutes' I traveled to Miami to spend a day with Mr. Soghanalian exploring in greater detail many of the issues he touched on in the TV broadcast. At a later time I will share some of these items with the Congress. At this time, I can only say to my colleagues that the outline contained in the following excerpts from the `60 Minutes' broadcast only scratches the surface of where and how the dictator Saddam Hussein acquired the deadly weapons he is now using against American and allied soldiers in the gulf war.
If our fears of a protracted ground war in Iraq are borne out--and I hope they won't be--hundreds and perhaps thousands of American soldiers will be wounded or killed by weapons our own Government helped Saddam Hussein acquire. Toward the end of this excerpted interview Mr. Soghanalian discusses the weaponry he has sold Iraq with the direct involvement and cooperation of various U.S. Government agencies.
Mr. Speaker, this matter calls out for further investigation.
Mr. Soghanalian is to be commended for his openness and his willingness to bring out into the open this most disturbing issue of the U.S. Government's role in arming Saddam Hussein.
Mr. Speaker, I include for the Record the transcript of the `60 Minutes' interview.
[Page: H837]
The Man Who Armed Iraq
Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian is the arms dealer who armed Iraq. During the war between Iraq and Iran, despite a worldwide embargo, Sarkis sold billions in arms to Saddam Hussein.
This Lebanese Armenian has made a career out of breaking international embargoes--supplying arms to countries and groups with whom the United States in particular--did not want to be seen with in public.
Filling that niche made him rich. And supplying Iraq made him during the 1980s the largest private arms dealer in the world.
As you would imagine, Sarkis's intimate relationship with Iraq's military gives him unique insight into their strategy. For a couple of days earlier this week, he talked with us about the arms he sold to Saddam Hussein and gave us what his assessment of what might be in store for our own troops.
Sarkis. Iraqi troops will never surrender to foreign troops. If they use Egyptians on a front line, you know, for psychological reason, maybe Iraqi soldier will say, I am surrendering to another brother, but to surrender to a foreign troop like Germans or French or American, they don't . . . they will fight to their last bullet.
Kroft. Sarkis Soghanalian not only provided weapons to Iraq, he inspected the front lines regularly during the war with Iran, checked out captured equipment, even helped develop Iraq's military strategy. The day before the war began, Sarkis told us in his Miami office that Iraq would, in fact, put up little or no resistance to U.S. air power. But his predictions about a ground war that is almost sure to follow are not so rosy.
Sarkis. The United States is facing hard core, tough battlefield trained ground forces.
Kroft. It's not going to be like Grenada?
Sarkis. No. Grenada was a vacation. Panama was the same way. This is not Panama, this is not Grenada. And you're fighting a different kind of people.
Kroft. What do you mean . . . ?
Sarkis. Well, Iraqi soldiers can go into the desert, into sand, and sit for two, three days. They don't need no heavy arms. They don't need no distilled water, no bottled water, you know. They can get milk out of a camel and survive, but they will dig in and wait for us to come in.
Kroft. Sarkis thinks the real battle will come when allied troops try to push the Iraqis out of populated areas like Kuwait City.
Sarkis. How we gonna kick those guys out of the houses? It's
gonna be like Berlin, wall to wall, and room to room . . . they will try to cause as much personal casualties as they can in order to embarrass our leaders here. That's their tactic. This is what's gonna be concentrated on. And Air Force superiority electronics-wise, maybe they jam all their equipment, that's . . . they don't care about that. But the major aim is how much casualty they can cause. . . . The [American] equipment is advanced equipment, but it is not for this war. You are not fighting in a climate like European climate, your fighting heat, rain, dust. It won't work.
Kroft. Sarkis says the equipment he sold to Iraq has been customized to withstand the heat and sand and dust of the Middle East. He says Iraq's military hardware may be more reliable.
Sarkis. Because it's not electronic . . . it's conventional weapons. Just like their tanks. They don't have air conditioning, no stabilizer, no nothing. They just, you know, the old-fashioned conventional thing. They dig a hole, they circle a couple of times, they make a hole. They sit there like a sniper and wait for the enemy to come in. And they have artillery superiority.
Kroft. You sold the Iraqis quite a bit of artillery, French artillery . . . the 155 Howitzer . . self propelled?
Sarkis. Yes.
Kroft. Why is it superior to anything the United States has?
Sarkis. We do not have the same range as this vehicle . . . this gun has. It's modified to 42 kilometers [25 miles]. What do we have in the field to match this gun?
Kroft. The Iraqis have a 20 kilometer [12 mile] advantage in terms of artillery range.
Sarkis. Yeah. They can fight from a distance.
Kroft. And Sarkis says that the French artillery pieces he sold to Iraq, over one hundred of them, are backed by thousands of specially modified Soviet long-range cannons, as well as advanced artillery purchased from South Africa by way of Austria. Sarkis used Austria as a middle man to get around U.N. sanctions against South Africa. A lot of different people had their hands in this, one way or another.
Sarkis. Oh, yeah the . . . the . . . war game.
Kroft. What do you mean the war game?
Sarkis. Well, some people lose blood, some people make money. That's why I don't want to get involved in this war. I don't want to make money on . . .
Kroft. You're already involved in this war, aren't you?
Sarkis. Well, I don't look at it that way.
Kroft. A lot of that equipment that's facing the United States right now was sold to the Iraqis by you, Sarkis.
Sarkis. Yeah, but I didn't sell it eight years ago to fight ourselves today. That was sold to fight Khomeini. And we were against Khomeini. U.S. had hostages there, and I said, I'll go ahead and take my share in it.
Kroft. So you sold the weapons to the Iraqis to fight the. . .
Sarkis. Khomeinis . . . not to fight the, you know, Americans.
Kroft. Right. Because that would be best for America . . . and best maybe for Sarkis.
Sarkis. Well, you get compensated sometimes. There's nothing wrong with that. And if Sarkis wouldn't do it, somebody else would do it.
Kroft. And other arms dealers and countries did. Brazil provided thousands of armored vehicles. China and the Soviet Union sent tanks, missiles and munitions. German companies sold Saddam poison gas technology, and France, not only approved the sale of artillery to Iraq, but [also sold] armed helicopters and antiaircraft missile systems.
This Chilean arms manufacturer [shown on screen] sold Saddam deadly cluster bombs--reportedly with technical assistance from U.S. companies, and the United States allowed American computer technology to go to Iraq as well. It allowed Sarkis to sell Hughes and Bell helicopters. The U.S. government approved the sale after Iraq promised that they would only be used for civilian purposes. Sarkis told us that the helicopters were used as transportation during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
Sarkis. I did it with the knowledge of U.S. authorities, policy makers--and also they have delivered weapons that are equally weapons as I did. I do not have anything on my conscience. I did not sell the weapons to kill the American boys.
Kroft. Which agencies of the U.S. government knew about Sarkis and his deals with Iraq? Well, according to Sarkis, almost all of them. And federal court documents show that Sarkis Soghanalian had a relationship with U.S. intelligence agencies for decades, and has performed work on their behalf.
Not all of Sarkis's deals with Iraq involve weapons. He arranged the sale of $280 million in uniforms to the Iraqi army. And Sarkis's partners in the deal included former Vice President Spiro Agnew, a former Attorney General, Colonel Jack Brennan.
The partners used their influence to get ex-President Nixon to provide them with these letters of introduction [shown on screen] to heads of state around the world.
[To Sarkis] Do you think there was anything unusual about a former Vice President and a former Attorney General and a former Chief of Staff for the President of the United Stateas to want to be selling military uniforms to the Iraqis?
Sarkis. They were not only in the uniform business. They would sell their mothers if they could, just to make the money.
Kroft. Some of his partners in that deal aren't talking to him
at all today. They're in court suing Sarkis over the multimillion dollar commissions they say he hasn't paid them
... [To Sarkis] Are you a Merchant of Death? You are an arms salesman.
Sarkis. No. I am a coordinator of industries that produce arms. But I am not a salesman. I don't carry no bag. I don't carry no catalogue in my pocket to sell arms to anybody.
Kroft. Why did this international arms dealer [Sarkis]--who is currently under federal indictment in Miami--decide to talk with us? Well, Sarkis says this is one war he doesn't want any part of.
Sarkis. No, this war stinks. It's not to anybody's advantage. I don't know who's advising who. This is a dirty war for us. What are we gonna do with Kuwait? We lose so many men, and next spring the Emir of Kuwait is sitting in Monaco, in Monte Carlo, happy with European girls. I'd fight for anybody that I have faith in. ... The man has 80 wives. Which one can he love, you know, if he's raising a family or a country? What do you owe the Emir of Kuwait? Why? For all this much sacrifice, or for prestige?
Kroft. Which do you think?
Sarkis. I think it's for ego, somebody's ego. ...
Kroft. You don't think it's worth committing a half a million American troops to ...
Sarkis. Hell no. ... go to die for this garbage war, no way, not me. I obey my country. I obey my President. He's a lovely man. He's a good man. He's, ah, intelligent person, but how he's making this decision, I don't know.
Kroft. And Sarkis Soghanalian made a decision too. He says Iraq has approached him about breaking the current embargo and selling them more arms. He says he's not running their phone calls.
Sarkis. It against my principle ... to go against U.S. policy. I'm staying away 100 percent now because I don't want to supply them with nothing. No spare parts or nothing. No vehicles, no shoes, no clothes, no nothing because they will support the enemy of today. A friend of yesterday is an enemy of today.
[Page: H838]
... Kroft. And tomorrow?
Sarkis. Who knows? Maybe a friend again.
Kroft [closing]. For the last three years Sarkis Soghanalian has been under a federal indictment for--among other things--conspiring to sell 300 American-built Hughes combat helicopters to Iraq.
The case has been stalled largely because U.S. intelligence agencies have been reluctant to turn over classified files that Sarkis says he needs to conduct his defense.
END
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Mas não é óbvio para toda a gente (menos o J.Fischer) que o que tem resultado contra o Saddam não são os inspectores mas sim a ameaça do uso da força militar?
Deixem-se de rodeios porque quanto mais depressa o mundo se livrar do Saddam melhor será para todos.
PS: Ó 777, quando apanhares o cancro no pulmão talvez mudes de nick...
Deixem-se de rodeios porque quanto mais depressa o mundo se livrar do Saddam melhor será para todos.
PS: Ó 777, quando apanhares o cancro no pulmão talvez mudes de nick...
-
- Mensagens: 5852
- Registado: 4/11/2002 22:48
- Localização: Entre Marte e Vénus
Ora aqui....
estamos totalmente de acordo.
Subscrevo e assino
777
A minha opinião é que nós é que deviamos ter juízo e não comprar nem F-16 nem submarinos nem coisa nenhuma (excepto lanchas para controlar a nossa ZEE). Fazíamos disto uma Suiça e punhamos os militares (profissionais) a limpar a mata e a fazer estradas para conhecerem o território enquanto não houvesse guerra (entre exercícios). Mas isso não importa.
Subscrevo e assino
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Vamos por partes....
1) Eu não disse que os USA actuaram no Koweit em virtude da pressão internacional. O que eu disse foi que a resposta politica à invasão do Koweit foi demorada e comprometida.
2) Os USA ficaram a ver como paravam as modas até responderem.
3) Já ouviu falar de estratégia militar: Por exemplo, obrigar o "inimigo" a dar um passo em frente pensando este que pode contar com a nossa ajuda.
4) Em relação a drogas sou um autêntico adicto. Mas de uma estou livre. Sabe qual é? Da retórica militarista do bush e companhia. Nem o PCUS conseguia ter uma cassete destas. O homem só utiliza quatro frases. Mas enfim é o resultado de ter um alcoólico texano na Casa Branca.
777
2) Os USA ficaram a ver como paravam as modas até responderem.
3) Já ouviu falar de estratégia militar: Por exemplo, obrigar o "inimigo" a dar um passo em frente pensando este que pode contar com a nossa ajuda.
4) Em relação a drogas sou um autêntico adicto. Mas de uma estou livre. Sabe qual é? Da retórica militarista do bush e companhia. Nem o PCUS conseguia ter uma cassete destas. O homem só utiliza quatro frases. Mas enfim é o resultado de ter um alcoólico texano na Casa Branca.
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
A minha opinião é que nós é que deviamos ter juízo e não comprar nem F-16 nem submarinos nem coisa nenhuma (excepto lanchas para controlar a nossa ZEE). Fazíamos disto uma Suiça e punhamos os militares (profissionais) a limpar a mata e a fazer estradas para conhecerem o território enquanto não houvesse guerra (entre exercícios). Mas isso não importa.
Agora o seu anti-americanismo é gritante até ao ponto de o cegar.
Agora o seu anti-americanismo é gritante até ao ponto de o cegar.
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Não tenho aqui a lista.....
mas foram muitos milhões e milhões de dólares. Com tempo tentarei arranjar esses elementos. Quais os fornecedores, montantes envolvidos, etc. Fica descansado que farei o tpc.
Em relação aos F-16, os americanos venderam-nos material de segunda, obsoleto e que não dá para fazer nada a não ser gastar dinheiro na manutenção deles. Neste momento só dão para combate à vista. O upgrade custa mais que os valores de compra.
"Business like usual". Enfim.......
777
Em relação aos F-16, os americanos venderam-nos material de segunda, obsoleto e que não dá para fazer nada a não ser gastar dinheiro na manutenção deles. Neste momento só dão para combate à vista. O upgrade custa mais que os valores de compra.
"Business like usual". Enfim.......
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Ó 777, o amigo DROGA-SE? Então agora os EUA actuaram no Kuwait porque a pressão internacional se tornou abrumadora?
Caramba, o amigo servia mesmo para montar um "Ministrério da Verdade".
Devo desde já dizer que tenho grandes dúvidas em que se possa discutir este assunto consigo. A opinião que deixou acima é demasiado fantástica, peça aí uma segunda opinião de outra pessoa para ver se não se ri com essa coisa.
Para mais, ALGUMA VEZ a PRESSÂO INTERNACIONAL OBRIGARIA SEJA QUEM FOR A ACTUAR SEJA ONDE FOR E ARRISCAR VIDAS COM ISSO?
O amigo com essa fez-me lembrar os saudosos comunas que não viam um palmo à frente dos olhos acerca da realidade no Leste.
Caramba, o amigo servia mesmo para montar um "Ministrério da Verdade".
Devo desde já dizer que tenho grandes dúvidas em que se possa discutir este assunto consigo. A opinião que deixou acima é demasiado fantástica, peça aí uma segunda opinião de outra pessoa para ver se não se ri com essa coisa.
Para mais, ALGUMA VEZ a PRESSÂO INTERNACIONAL OBRIGARIA SEJA QUEM FOR A ACTUAR SEJA ONDE FOR E ARRISCAR VIDAS COM ISSO?
O amigo com essa fez-me lembrar os saudosos comunas que não viam um palmo à frente dos olhos acerca da realidade no Leste.
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Então dê aí exemplos de armamento americano presente no Iraque, que eu escapa-me isso.
Além de que volto a frisar que quem vende o equipamento, como quem vende as pistolas, como quem vende as facas, não tem a ver com quem as usa e como as usa. E mesmo que tivesse, isso não desculpava o comportamento errado de quem as usa.
Ou vê algum problema que os EUA nos vendam a nós F-16?
Além de que volto a frisar que quem vende o equipamento, como quem vende as pistolas, como quem vende as facas, não tem a ver com quem as usa e como as usa. E mesmo que tivesse, isso não desculpava o comportamento errado de quem as usa.
Ou vê algum problema que os EUA nos vendam a nós F-16?
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Incognitus.....
disse:
Essa é de rir
e chorar 
ao mesmo tempo....
Os USA só responderam quando a pressão internacional se tornou abrumadora.....
777
2) Mesmo que a Embaixadora não reagisse, tal era natural - não teria imediatamente instruções. As primeiras reacções oficiais dos EUA foram no sentido do Iraque repor a situação atenerior, libertando o Kuwait.
Essa é de rir
e chorar ao mesmo tempo....
Os USA só responderam quando a pressão internacional se tornou abrumadora.....
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Em relação ao armamento....
1) Se não sabes o Irão é que era fornecido pelos USA. Quando da queda do Xá e a súbida ao poder dos fundamentalistas os USA fizeram a agulha e começaram a armar o Iraque.
2) É evidente que o Iraque andava a comprar noutras fontes, mas com a alteração politica entretanto verificada na região, foram os USA que a partir dessa data começaram a fornecer armamento ao Iraque.
3) Mais, os USA forneceram conselheiros militares que apoiaram o Iraque durante o conflito com o Irão.
4) Basta consultar, se a memória é curta, a imprensa da altura.
777
2) É evidente que o Iraque andava a comprar noutras fontes, mas com a alteração politica entretanto verificada na região, foram os USA que a partir dessa data começaram a fornecer armamento ao Iraque.
3) Mais, os USA forneceram conselheiros militares que apoiaram o Iraque durante o conflito com o Irão.
4) Basta consultar, se a memória é curta, a imprensa da altura.
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
1) Mesmo que não seja irrelevante, como se vê pelo meu post anterior, pelo menos as armas mais visíveis não eram americanas (ao contrário de algumas das que conheço do Irão, que de facto são). O Iraque foi um aliado russo, naturalmente a maior parte do material é soviético.
2) Mesmo que a Embaixadora não reagisse, tal era natural - não teria imediatamente instruções. As primeiras reacções oficiais dos EUA foram no sentido do Iraque repor a situação atenerior, libertando o Kuwait. E já agora, para quem acredita no Saddam, ele na altura também disse que ia retirar.
2) Mesmo que a Embaixadora não reagisse, tal era natural - não teria imediatamente instruções. As primeiras reacções oficiais dos EUA foram no sentido do Iraque repor a situação atenerior, libertando o Kuwait. E já agora, para quem acredita no Saddam, ele na altura também disse que ia retirar.
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Incognitus....
1) De Irrelevante é que não tem nada. É precisamente o contrário.
2) Conselho: Vai consultar a imprensa da época. E depois diz-me se é surreal....
777
2) Conselho: Vai consultar a imprensa da época. E depois diz-me se é surreal....
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Já agora, se bem me lembro a maioria dos caças Iraquianos eram Mirage (Franceses, fabricados pela Dassault, inclusive tenho um tio engenheiro que já esteve no Iraque a fazer a manutenção dos ditos).
E a maioria dos tanques eram soviéticos.
E as metralhadoras são claramente AK-47, também soviéticas.
E a maioria dos tanques eram soviéticos.
E as metralhadoras são claramente AK-47, também soviéticas.
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
Não brinques com....
a nossa inteligência.....
Quem armou o Iraque para fazer a guerra contra o Irão?
Quem transformou o exército iraquiano no "gendarme" da zona?
Quem autorizou a invasão do Koweit? (Se te lembrares a Srª Embaixadora dos USA não se opôs à invasão, quando esta lhe foi comunicada)...
Enfim, tantas coisas para dizer.....
777
Quem armou o Iraque para fazer a guerra contra o Irão?
Quem transformou o exército iraquiano no "gendarme" da zona?
Quem autorizou a invasão do Koweit? (Se te lembrares a Srª Embaixadora dos USA não se opôs à invasão, quando esta lhe foi comunicada)...
Enfim, tantas coisas para dizer.....
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
- Mensagens: 3255
- Registado: 6/11/2002 19:27
E a seguir, metem lá outros.....
a quem vão vender armas outra vez........
"It's only business "stupid""
777
"It's only business "stupid""
777
A sua indiferença em matéria de dinheiro veio, como sempre, favorecer-lhe a fortuna, evitando-lhe cometer os erros próprios de quem receia perder e aqueles de quem quer ganhar depressa e muito.
-
- Mensagens: 75
- Registado: 6/2/2003 13:02
Quem está ligado:
Utilizadores a ver este Fórum: goncaladas, Google [Bot], Goya777, Luzemburg, PAULOJOAO, Phil2014, Shimazaki_2, VALHALLA e 363 visitantes